anche i pettorali solidali devono aver i punti qualificanti...gomitolo ha scritto:a parte la discussione ITRA, direi che Kilian è abbastanza famoso da potersi far pagare anche un "pettorale solidale" da 2000euro, che garantisce la partecipazione senza accedere ad alcuna estrazione....sponsor li ha, non vedo proprio il problema.
Kilian e ITRA
Moderatore: leosorry
Re: Kilian e ITRA
-
blackmagic
- Messaggi: 1426
- Iscritto il: 05/09/2010, 15:36
- Località: Genova
- Contatta:
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Concordo. Sicuramente non hanno capito niente di ITRA (tranne Thornley,il RD di WS che in questi giorni ha chiarito bene la sua posizione, e comunque mi sembra che anche da noi non ci sia nell'utente un idea chiara di cos'è, quindi forse va anche comunicata a modo), però resta il fatto che nei confronti di UTMB la posizione che hanno preso è legittima: se devo versare un obolo anche minimo per essere riconosciuto gara qualificante, non ci interessa e va bene lo stesso. Assurdo che UTMB venga a chiederlo per sistemare l'affaire Kilian (che comunque potrà sicuramente correre visto che comunque eccezioni se ne sono fatte tutti gli anni, senza tanta fanfara).mountainhobo ha scritto:Premesso che 100 euro come spesa amministrativa (controllo della traccia, calendari, attivazione profilo gara, classifiche post-gara, etc...) la trovo una spesa ridicolmente abbordabile anche per chi organizza la gara di paese, non riesco comunque a trovarmi in completo disaccordo con quello che hanno scritto i RD delle gare americane.
Hanno capito come funziona ITRA? No. Hanno il dovere di pagare per far partecipare Kilian all'UTMB? Cazzo no.
Agli americani non interessa la collezione di punti: hai finito la 100 miglia XYZ? Puoi fare la WS100. Fine del discorso
Mi fa ridere che un sistema "inventato" dai Poletti per garantire una lista iscritti sensata dal pdv esperienza in gare lunghe in montagna gli si ritorca contro nel momento in cui un atleta su cui ovviamente vorrebbero monetizzare (sto parlando al plurale, ma intendo Poletti-UTMB, in questo l'ITRA non ha alcuna colpa, anzi non c'entra proprio nulla) non ha i punti per partecipare.
La risposta dei RD americani è geniale nella sua semplicità: "per noi non è un problema che la nostra gara venga considerata come qualificatrice, semplicemente non chiedeteci soldi per sistemare un problema che avete creato"
Poi che gli americani ci montino sopra un pippone è ridondante, come Mountainhobo però trovo che la posizione sia difendibile.
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Ben tornato black (e ancora complimenti). Mi fa piacere che tiri in ballo Craig Thornley. L'ho fatto anch'io su sito Ultrarunnerpodcast per lo stesso motivo, suggerendo che se volevano capire qualcosa del ITRA dovevano rivolgersi a lui.
Poi sinceramente non ho capito perche la loro prima mossa (knee-jerk reaction) è stato quello di pubblicare una lettera aperta. Non sarebbe stato meglio intavolare una discussione fra questi RD, gli Poletti e l'ITRA per cercare di capirsi e forse risolvere una situazione che, secondo me, è tutto basato su incomprensioni, sospetti e forse anche un po di nazionalismo, tutto farcita con problematiche linguistiche e culturali.
Poi sinceramente non ho capito perche la loro prima mossa (knee-jerk reaction) è stato quello di pubblicare una lettera aperta. Non sarebbe stato meglio intavolare una discussione fra questi RD, gli Poletti e l'ITRA per cercare di capirsi e forse risolvere una situazione che, secondo me, è tutto basato su incomprensioni, sospetti e forse anche un po di nazionalismo, tutto farcita con problematiche linguistiche e culturali.
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Press release, 3rd of July, 2017
Reaction to the article published by 9 american organizers on ultrarunning.com and trailrunnermag.com
Following the article published on the 27th of June on ultrarunning.com and on the 29th of June on trailrunnermag.com, the ITRA wishes to answer.
1. It is written : “Catherine Poletti, who, along with her husband Michel, owns UTMB and ITRA”
No, Catherine and Michel Poletti don’t own ITRA nor UTMB®. The ITRA is an association and its governance is ensured by a Steering Committee and an Executive Board. Michel Poletti is the association’s current President elected. Catherine Poletti is one of the ITRA’s founder members, the latters don’t have any decision-making power inside the association.
The UTMB® is co-organised by the LLC Autour du Mont Blanc and Association les Trailers du Mont Blanc. Catherine and Michel Poletti are co-managers of the LLC Autour du Mont-Blanc and co-directors of UTMB®.
2. It is written : “UTMB and ITRA are strictly for-profit enterprises, with revenues estimated in the millions of Euros.”
The ITRA is a non-profit association coming under Swiss law. Its financial statement has been published during the General Meeting on the 11th of June 2017 and has been sent to all the attendees.
For more information on ITRA, including its finances, you can consult the presentation made during the General Meeting by clicking here.
The UTMB® organization’s budget is driven by the LLC Autour du Mont-Blanc whose annual accounts are filled with the French administration.
3. It is written : “UTMB requires ultra races to pay an annual fee to ITRA to earn qualifying “points.””
No, the ITRA offers different services to runners and organizers, including races evaluation system. These services are offered to ITRA members up-to-date with their membership, and for non-members organizers interested in using them.
Each organization decides of the necessary qualification requirements to register to its races. Each organization can choose the races that will be qualifying for its races, whether or not they are evaluated by ITRA. The fact of being registered on the UTMB® qualifying list is free of charge.
4. It is written : “Kilian lacked the qualifying UTMB “points.””
The UTMB® organization has ensured that Kilian Jornet had his points. Regarding the performances of the latter and knowing the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run and its limited number of finishers (between 110 and 125), the UTMB® has chosen to add retroactively the race, on an exceptional basis, to the list of races allowing runners to qualify (6 points). A choice approved by Dale Garland, the race director of Hardrock 100 Endurance Run. In fact, Kilian Jornet has his points to run the 2017 UTMB®.
Following the debates caused by this article, the ITRA wishes to provide all the explanation regarding its organization and operation in order to respond to the several questions as accurately as possible.
The facts
ITRA received an email on March, 19th 2017 from UTMB® indicating that Hardrock 100 Endurance Run accepted the UTMB® proposal to be a qualifying race.
At the same time, the UTMB® offered to the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run director to be contacted by the ITRA, in order to let the latter present its organization and operation. The proposal was agreed.
Three days later, the ITRA contacted the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run as asked and informed them by email about the global organization and the association’s missions. Since ITRA did not received any answer to the last email sent, they concluded that the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run was not interested by joining the structure. The discussions stopped there, not any reminding was done.
So far, the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run is not an ITRA member and has not been evaluated by ITRA.
ITRA organization
ITRA is an international non-profit association. If the association balance is positive, it is fully reinvested to finance the ITRA development and activities.
Its members are runners, organizers, and national athletics federations. Today it counts 14 founding members, 14 institutional members, 874 organizer members, and 3198 runner members from 84 different countries.
The organizers and the runners are represented by 86 national representatives elected for 2 years by the runner and organizer members of each country.
ITRA is directed by a Steering Committee elected democratically composed by 2 founding members, 8 institutional members, 8 organizer members and 4 runner members.
The day-to-day work is under the Executive Committee, composed by the president, the 4 vice-presidents, the secretary-general and the treasurer. The Executive Committee is elected by the Steering Committee. Michel Poletti is the current elected president.
All the ITRA elected members are volunteers: they do not receive any salary for their functions inside ITRA. The ITRA counts 4 employees in full-time or part-time.
The ITRA statutes are available here.
How ITRA is running on ?
ITRA brings some services to its members, but also offers some free services to all organizers or runners. Nowadays, we count 918 organizer accounts and 29,474 free runner accounts.
ITRA sets up many commissions to work on the different topics related with our sport:
The health commission
It gathers medicines and researchers in order to understand the trail-running effects on the health and to develop a health program for runners.
The security & safety commission
It offers solutions to help the organizers by improving the safety measures set up on their races (the security guidelines can be downloaded for free in 6 languages on the ITRA website).
The quality commission
It will soon offer to organizers a method to evaluate the global quality of their races.
The ranking and evaluation commission
It brings the ITRA Performance Index and the ITRA points’ calculation.
- Many works are carried out to improve the calculation of the quotation and the Performance Index, other factor could enter in the calculation soon.
- The race evaluations are requested from the organization account on ITRA website. The account creation is free, the organization can decide to be a member or not. In the case of membership, the annual fees cover the evaluation requests for all the year, otherwise the price for an evaluation is 100€. Only quantifiable factors are used to evaluate races, namely: the distance and the elevation gain.
The World Championships commission
It develops the technical and communication specifications and share it with the IAU and the local organizer. It works jointly with IAU and the local organizer for the World Championships’ organization.
The elite athletes commission
When the Steering Committee must take a strategic decision for the association, they asked to this commission their point of view.
For more information about ITRA, including its finances, you can consult the presentation made at the last General Assembly of ITRA, June 11, 2017 in Badia Prataglia, Italy, by clicking here.
Key information to remember
The ITRA evaluates GPS tracks of the organizers who request it.
Points awarded by the ITRA to races allow runners to register on some races that require, in their race regulation, a minimum of points (UTMF, Lavaredo Ultra-Trail, Madeira Island Ultra-Trail, UTMB, Trail Verbier Saint Bernard, Mauna to Mauna Ultra,…).
The ITRA doesn’t intervene in the organizers’ choices regarding their qualifying races. This is not ITRA’s job, it is the role of the organizers only.
For more information:
ITRA CONTACT
Tel: +41 (0) 2 15 19 02 08 - Email: contact@itra.run
ITRA PRESS RELATIONS
INFOCÎMES: Anne Gery
Tel: +33 (0)4 50 47 24 61 - Mobile : +33 (0)6 12 03 68 95 - Email: annegery@infocimes.com
Reaction to the article published by 9 american organizers on ultrarunning.com and trailrunnermag.com
Following the article published on the 27th of June on ultrarunning.com and on the 29th of June on trailrunnermag.com, the ITRA wishes to answer.
1. It is written : “Catherine Poletti, who, along with her husband Michel, owns UTMB and ITRA”
No, Catherine and Michel Poletti don’t own ITRA nor UTMB®. The ITRA is an association and its governance is ensured by a Steering Committee and an Executive Board. Michel Poletti is the association’s current President elected. Catherine Poletti is one of the ITRA’s founder members, the latters don’t have any decision-making power inside the association.
The UTMB® is co-organised by the LLC Autour du Mont Blanc and Association les Trailers du Mont Blanc. Catherine and Michel Poletti are co-managers of the LLC Autour du Mont-Blanc and co-directors of UTMB®.
2. It is written : “UTMB and ITRA are strictly for-profit enterprises, with revenues estimated in the millions of Euros.”
The ITRA is a non-profit association coming under Swiss law. Its financial statement has been published during the General Meeting on the 11th of June 2017 and has been sent to all the attendees.
For more information on ITRA, including its finances, you can consult the presentation made during the General Meeting by clicking here.
The UTMB® organization’s budget is driven by the LLC Autour du Mont-Blanc whose annual accounts are filled with the French administration.
3. It is written : “UTMB requires ultra races to pay an annual fee to ITRA to earn qualifying “points.””
No, the ITRA offers different services to runners and organizers, including races evaluation system. These services are offered to ITRA members up-to-date with their membership, and for non-members organizers interested in using them.
Each organization decides of the necessary qualification requirements to register to its races. Each organization can choose the races that will be qualifying for its races, whether or not they are evaluated by ITRA. The fact of being registered on the UTMB® qualifying list is free of charge.
4. It is written : “Kilian lacked the qualifying UTMB “points.””
The UTMB® organization has ensured that Kilian Jornet had his points. Regarding the performances of the latter and knowing the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run and its limited number of finishers (between 110 and 125), the UTMB® has chosen to add retroactively the race, on an exceptional basis, to the list of races allowing runners to qualify (6 points). A choice approved by Dale Garland, the race director of Hardrock 100 Endurance Run. In fact, Kilian Jornet has his points to run the 2017 UTMB®.
Following the debates caused by this article, the ITRA wishes to provide all the explanation regarding its organization and operation in order to respond to the several questions as accurately as possible.
The facts
ITRA received an email on March, 19th 2017 from UTMB® indicating that Hardrock 100 Endurance Run accepted the UTMB® proposal to be a qualifying race.
At the same time, the UTMB® offered to the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run director to be contacted by the ITRA, in order to let the latter present its organization and operation. The proposal was agreed.
Three days later, the ITRA contacted the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run as asked and informed them by email about the global organization and the association’s missions. Since ITRA did not received any answer to the last email sent, they concluded that the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run was not interested by joining the structure. The discussions stopped there, not any reminding was done.
So far, the Hardrock 100 Endurance Run is not an ITRA member and has not been evaluated by ITRA.
ITRA organization
ITRA is an international non-profit association. If the association balance is positive, it is fully reinvested to finance the ITRA development and activities.
Its members are runners, organizers, and national athletics federations. Today it counts 14 founding members, 14 institutional members, 874 organizer members, and 3198 runner members from 84 different countries.
The organizers and the runners are represented by 86 national representatives elected for 2 years by the runner and organizer members of each country.
ITRA is directed by a Steering Committee elected democratically composed by 2 founding members, 8 institutional members, 8 organizer members and 4 runner members.
The day-to-day work is under the Executive Committee, composed by the president, the 4 vice-presidents, the secretary-general and the treasurer. The Executive Committee is elected by the Steering Committee. Michel Poletti is the current elected president.
All the ITRA elected members are volunteers: they do not receive any salary for their functions inside ITRA. The ITRA counts 4 employees in full-time or part-time.
The ITRA statutes are available here.
How ITRA is running on ?
ITRA brings some services to its members, but also offers some free services to all organizers or runners. Nowadays, we count 918 organizer accounts and 29,474 free runner accounts.
ITRA sets up many commissions to work on the different topics related with our sport:
The health commission
It gathers medicines and researchers in order to understand the trail-running effects on the health and to develop a health program for runners.
The security & safety commission
It offers solutions to help the organizers by improving the safety measures set up on their races (the security guidelines can be downloaded for free in 6 languages on the ITRA website).
The quality commission
It will soon offer to organizers a method to evaluate the global quality of their races.
The ranking and evaluation commission
It brings the ITRA Performance Index and the ITRA points’ calculation.
- Many works are carried out to improve the calculation of the quotation and the Performance Index, other factor could enter in the calculation soon.
- The race evaluations are requested from the organization account on ITRA website. The account creation is free, the organization can decide to be a member or not. In the case of membership, the annual fees cover the evaluation requests for all the year, otherwise the price for an evaluation is 100€. Only quantifiable factors are used to evaluate races, namely: the distance and the elevation gain.
The World Championships commission
It develops the technical and communication specifications and share it with the IAU and the local organizer. It works jointly with IAU and the local organizer for the World Championships’ organization.
The elite athletes commission
When the Steering Committee must take a strategic decision for the association, they asked to this commission their point of view.
For more information about ITRA, including its finances, you can consult the presentation made at the last General Assembly of ITRA, June 11, 2017 in Badia Prataglia, Italy, by clicking here.
Key information to remember
The ITRA evaluates GPS tracks of the organizers who request it.
Points awarded by the ITRA to races allow runners to register on some races that require, in their race regulation, a minimum of points (UTMF, Lavaredo Ultra-Trail, Madeira Island Ultra-Trail, UTMB, Trail Verbier Saint Bernard, Mauna to Mauna Ultra,…).
The ITRA doesn’t intervene in the organizers’ choices regarding their qualifying races. This is not ITRA’s job, it is the role of the organizers only.
For more information:
ITRA CONTACT
Tel: +41 (0) 2 15 19 02 08 - Email: contact@itra.run
ITRA PRESS RELATIONS
INFOCÎMES: Anne Gery
Tel: +33 (0)4 50 47 24 61 - Mobile : +33 (0)6 12 03 68 95 - Email: annegery@infocimes.com
-
mountainhobo
- Messaggi: 37
- Iscritto il: 12/09/2016, 12:58
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Ta-daaaa!
Come da previsione hanno sistemato in maniera *creativa* un problema che si sono creati da soli. Con la differenza che per sistemarlo -nel mentre- hanno fatto una figura da poveretti.
Come da previsione hanno sistemato in maniera *creativa* un problema che si sono creati da soli. Con la differenza che per sistemarlo -nel mentre- hanno fatto una figura da poveretti.
Re: Kilian e ITRA
A me sembra che la figura da poveretti l'abbiano fatta agli americani. Non si sono dati neanche la briga di capire chi fosse l'Itra prima di sentenziare sulla propria superiorità morale.mountainhobo ha scritto:Ta-daaaa!
Come da previsione hanno sistemato in maniera *creativa* un problema che si sono creati da soli. Con la differenza che per sistemarlo -nel mentre- hanno fatto una figura da poveretti.
Credo che un filino più di modestia e volontà di capire sarebbe stata più apprezzata. Stante la sacrosanta legittimità a non voler accettare l'affiliazione all'Itra
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Concordo con motosega
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Shame on the americans (che hanno sparato a zero senza informarsi) but...mi sembra una cosa molto "democristana". Non possiedono l'ITRA ma uno è presidente e l'altra membro fondatore, non possiedono UTMB ma sono condirettori e co-organizzatori, i punti per qualificarsi alle gettonatissime gare UTMB casualmente sono stabiliti da ITRA. La mossa di includere retroattivamente la HR100 in modo da garantirsi la presenza di Kilian è stata la cigliegina sulla torta...della tristezza!
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Sono tutti e due membri fondatori e uno è presidentem ma eletto secondo lo statuto in modo democratico. E possibile/probabile che le prossime elezioni (credo quest'anno) danno un verdetto diverso.
Sono proprietari del UTMB. Meglio sono proprietari della società Autor du Mont Blanc che organizza l'UTMB.
I punti necessari per partecipare a UTMB sono decisi da loro come organizzatori del UTMB.
Ma i punti assegnati a ciascun gara vengono decisi da ITRA e non da UTMB.
Questi punti non vengono utilizzati solo da UTMB come punti qualificanti ma anche da altre gare. Qualsiasi gara, volendo, potrebbe utilizzare questa sistema di punti.
Sono d'accordo che ci sono diverse zone di grigio e, se i Poletti forse meno presuntuosi, potrebbero cercare di eliminare queste zone grigie per fare apparire il tutto più trasparente.
Io sono contento che alla fine vedremo Kilian, Jim Walmsley e Zach Millar insieme a Chamonix alla fine di agosto. Chi sarà il primo a tornare in Place des Amities?
Sono proprietari del UTMB. Meglio sono proprietari della società Autor du Mont Blanc che organizza l'UTMB.
I punti necessari per partecipare a UTMB sono decisi da loro come organizzatori del UTMB.
Ma i punti assegnati a ciascun gara vengono decisi da ITRA e non da UTMB.
Questi punti non vengono utilizzati solo da UTMB come punti qualificanti ma anche da altre gare. Qualsiasi gara, volendo, potrebbe utilizzare questa sistema di punti.
Sono d'accordo che ci sono diverse zone di grigio e, se i Poletti forse meno presuntuosi, potrebbero cercare di eliminare queste zone grigie per fare apparire il tutto più trasparente.
Io sono contento che alla fine vedremo Kilian, Jim Walmsley e Zach Millar insieme a Chamonix alla fine di agosto. Chi sarà il primo a tornare in Place des Amities?
-
andrea stanco
- Messaggi: 752
- Iscritto il: 06/09/2010, 12:49
- Località: GENOVA
Re: Kilian e ITRA
Mi permetto una piccola ma importante precisazione:
l'iscrizione alla gara 2017 di Kilian Jornet era già stata ratificata dall'organizzazione al momento della pubblicazione della lista.
Come accade per i giornalisti, l'organizzazione si è arrogata la libertà di concedere la partecipazione.
Articoli e scambi di comunicazioni degli ultimi giorni li immagino come una questione extra sportiva che non sono in grado di commentare.
Avere al via tanti élite sicuramente genera ulteriore interesse, soprattutto tra i media orizzontali.
Chamonix nei giorni scorsi (Marathon) era piena di televisioni da mezzo mondo, per UTMB week saranno almeno 5 volte, BINGO...
Tornando all'aspetto sportivo, credo che sarà avvincente ed entusiasmante, una lunga partita a scacchi, ma dall'attacco di Bovine sarà solo una lunga volata tra europei.
Come avvincenti ed entusiasmanti saranno tutte le gare della settimana, non dimentichiamolo.
andrea callera
Salomon BA
l'iscrizione alla gara 2017 di Kilian Jornet era già stata ratificata dall'organizzazione al momento della pubblicazione della lista.
Come accade per i giornalisti, l'organizzazione si è arrogata la libertà di concedere la partecipazione.
Articoli e scambi di comunicazioni degli ultimi giorni li immagino come una questione extra sportiva che non sono in grado di commentare.
Avere al via tanti élite sicuramente genera ulteriore interesse, soprattutto tra i media orizzontali.
Chamonix nei giorni scorsi (Marathon) era piena di televisioni da mezzo mondo, per UTMB week saranno almeno 5 volte, BINGO...
Tornando all'aspetto sportivo, credo che sarà avvincente ed entusiasmante, una lunga partita a scacchi, ma dall'attacco di Bovine sarà solo una lunga volata tra europei.
Come avvincenti ed entusiasmanti saranno tutte le gare della settimana, non dimentichiamolo.
andrea callera
Salomon BA
